Apogee Intelligence Lab: Ann Smarty on SEO, Reddit, and the Future of AI Visibility

Apogee Intelligence Lab is a monthly interview series from Apogee, an affiliate management and influencer partnership agency. Each month, we sit down with someone working at the edge of affiliate marketing, Reddit strategy, or AI search- people who are actually building, testing, and adjusting in real time as answer engines change how consumers discover products and brands.

This isn't a podcast, and it isn't a video series. It's a journalism-driven content engine. Every conversation gets recorded, transcribed, and turned into content across our owned properties.

Our first guest is Ann Smarty, an SEO strategist known for being direct about the divide running through the industry right now: people defending search fundamentals versus people chasing the next acronym, GEO, AEO, AIO, LLMO. Below is the full conversation.

On Whether SEO Is Being Replaced by GEO

You have watched SEO people split into camps for years now. One side is defending search fundamentals, the other is racing toward GEO, AEO, AIO, LLMO, and whatever acronym comes next. You have been pretty direct that most of what gets called GEO is just SEO with a new price tag. Are SEO people ok today?

“I have many thoughts on the topic, for sure,” Smarty said. “But mainly: GEO, or however you prefer to call AI visibility optimization, is definitely not traditional SEO, just because there are more parts to it than searching, and we deal with different metrics which we are still figuring out. But SEO is an integral part of GEO. LLMs are searching, and most of them are searching Google. If you have no search visibility, LLMs won't find you.”

She rejects the idea that one discipline is replacing the other. “One doesn't contradict the other, or rather one doesn't exist without the other, so I don't get these ‘SEO is dead, do GEO' claims. You need both. Search is heavily integrated with AI now, through AI Overviews and AI Mode. LLMs search, just like people do. How can you do one without the other? I have no idea.”

On the Shortest Path From SEO to AI Visibility

You have said SEO experience is an advantage in an AI-driven world, not a liability. For a marketer who has spent time doing real SEO work, what is the shortest path from where they are now to being genuinely effective at AI visibility, without buying into the rebranding?

“Being visible in search is the shortest, most effective way to gain visibility in LLMs, so far,” Smarty said. Before building out a GEO strategy, she recommends looking at two things first: current rankings for commercial queries, and branded search. “If people know your brand to search for it, LLMs know it too.”

On Whether the Industry Is Overreacting

Are people overreacting to AI search, or are they seeing something the numbers haven't caught up to yet?

“At this point, there is more noise than the actual change,” she said. “All numbers and studies agree on that, adoption, searching numbers, all of it. Everyone assumes it is the future, but I don't think we actually realize what the future is going to be.”

Her read on where this actually goes is different from the standard narrative. “I don't think it is going about people stopping using the search or replacing it with ChatGPT. The future is likely AI agents performing actions on behalf of people, but they will continue to search. So in essence, we simply get a new type of audience, AI agents, to optimize for. The channels will likely remain the same.”

On Brands With an Undiscovered Reddit Problem

You have made the case that Reddit is one of the most-cited sources in AI answers, and that 73 percent of businesses have Reddit threads ranking for their brand name, most of which have negative sentiment. For a brand that has never touched Reddit and has just discovered it has a reputation problem there, what is the first move, and what is the fastest way to get banned?

“For any brand that considers being on Reddit, the first move should be taking the time to create a strategy instead of trying to rush into it,” Smarty said. “Getting banned on Reddit is extremely easy. Many accounts get shadow-banned before they even try to do anything.”

She's blunt about who shouldn't be handling it internally without help. “Even if you think your social media team is great, which it likely is, they won't know how to start on Reddit. Get a consultation, talk to real experts, compare their notes, then pick one to help you create a strategy and train your team.”

On What Actually Gets Cited by LLMs

You have pushed back on listicles and shortcut tactics for AI visibility. What separates content that actually gets cited by LLMs from content that just looks optimized for it?

Her answer was one word: “Authority.” She expanded on it briefly. “You need to be listed on websites that have authority, and rank well in Google. However well you optimize your listicle, it won't be picked up unless the site and the author are authoritative and trusted.”

On AI Visibility Pulling SEO Back Toward PR

You have written about entity associations and about being mentioned alongside prominent competitors as signals LLMs pick up on. That sounds a lot like classic PR and digital relations work. Is AI visibility pulling SEO back toward PR, and if so, what does that mean for SEO teams that have spent years specializing away from that work?

“Digital PR is definitely making a confident comeback because it builds authority and places your brand in a relevant context,” Smarty said. She thinks a lot of SEO agencies avoid this work because it's harder than it looks. “SEO agencies don't like doing it because an effective PR campaign is much more than syndicating your press release through PR networks, which is how digital PR is perceived by many businesses. You need a real story or a real study and high-quality manual outreach to get coverage. SEO teams should start working with PR professionals to do it well.”

On What Happens to Affiliate Marketing

Affiliate marketing has historically lived on SEO-driven organic traffic, mostly through review sites, comparison content, and coupon pages. If LLMs are now answering “what is the best X” directly, what do you think happens to that whole layer of the affiliate economy, and what kind of affiliate or creator do you think survives that shift?

“The evolution is real, but the solution is the same for everyone,” she said. “Just like everyone else, affiliates need to start doing the real stuff.”

She pointed to a client as an example. “I have a client who reviews mattresses for a living. It is an affiliate site. But he has actually been testing every single product. He has come with his own unique methodology and metrics to review and compare products. He creates detailed videos of each test. He has weathered through every single Google update without losses, and now remains visible in both Google and LLMs. His non-commodity content is inseparable from his personal brand, so he is part of AI answers, not just a citation.”

On Reporting Visibility to a CFO

You have been clear that visibility is becoming the KPI, not clicks. For marketers whose entire career has been measured on traffic and conversions, how do you actually report on visibility to a CFO or a CEO who wants a number?

“Luckily, I can rely on my personal brand,” Smarty said. “Clients come to me because they know and trust me, so there's not much explaining needed.” For marketers without that built-in trust, she offered two numbers that hold up in a boardroom conversation: branded search growth, measured in impressions, diversity, and clicks, and growth in brand mentions, which she tracks using Buzzsumo.

On the Biggest Mistake Agencies Are Making

What is the most common mistake you see SEO agencies making right now as they try to reposition themselves as GEO or AI visibility shops?

“Claiming to be experts and to have figured it out. Immediate red flag,” she said. “I don't believe expertise is possible as we are still in the middle of the storm.”

She had a similarly sharp take on agencies pushing clients to shift budget entirely. “Convincing everyone to move budgets from SEO to GEO. This is like encouraging something to stop eating immediately because they will likely die in 100 years.”

On Spotting a Real AI Visibility Agency

What should a brand look for to tell the difference between an agency that actually understands AI visibility and one that just rebranded the deck?

“I don't think there's an agency with a clear understanding of AI visibility,” Smarty said. “We can understand how it works, but we don't have data for or predictability in many steps of the process. It is too dynamic.” Her advice is to be suspicious of confidence. “I'd avoid any loud statements or too confident sales calls. Good agencies will have full transparency as to guarantees, which are none. I'd also pick an agency that doesn't separate SEO from the process and admits that a good GEO strategy should elevate both search and LLM visibility.”

On the One Skill Worth Building Now

Five years out, what is the one skill someone in this field has to develop now to still be relevant then?

“Oh wow, in five years? So hard to predict what's going to happen in five years,” Smarty said. Her practical answer was learning to use the AI tools already available. “What every SEO should be doing now is to learn to use available AI tools. Claude Cowork is a great start. Use the dashboard to connect to your SEO tools for advanced analysis.”

She closed on a point worth sitting with. “While I know that human-created strategies will always win, learning to use AI will help you better understand where it is all going and always remain relevant.”

Ann Smarty is an SEO strategist and writer. Connect with her on LinkedIn.

Apogee Intelligence Lab is a monthly series from Apogee, an affiliate management and influencer partnership agency, documenting how the smartest people in affiliate marketing, Reddit strategy, and AI search are thinking about where the industry is headed.